Friday, August 22, 2025

17.11.25: Level 3; indefinites [1] ‘fishy’ Latin; introduction: the big picture

Image #1: “Deep Sea World” describes piranhas as the world’s most misunderstood fish. Below is an image of some Latin piranhas that are often misunderstood – but we’ll catch them slowly.

This topic deals with what we can broadly call indefinites, the equivalent of, for example:

Somebody told me that.

I don’t know anybody who can help me.

Whoever said that doesn’t know anything about it,

I’ll come and see you sometime, wherever you are.

I begin with what I shouldn’t begin with – an anecdote, but one which, I feel, really hammers home a crucial feature of dealing with Latin.

I once had to sit through a dull as ditchwater speech from a so-called expert on public speaking who stressed that he did not like information presented to him stage by stage: he wanted the “big picture”.

Image #2: Alright, if that’s what you want, here’s my “big picture” … and, rest assured, it could be far bigger -but my word cloud creator would probably explode! The image shows forty words, sort of lined up in battle formation against the Carthaginians.

Image #3: from Bennett’s “A New Latin Grammar”

https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/15665/pg15665-images.html#sect91

Bennett’s Grammar is thorough, but a grammar book does what it says on the tin: it presents the language (in tabular form or in lists), provides some (usually) limited information and even more limited examples and practice. Moreover, every word has to be in a “pigeon hole”: it’s an adjective or a pronoun or a substantive or an adverb or a “determiner”.

Image #4: the image says it all … in fact, it says way too much

You will come across information of biblical proportions, complex linguistic terms, together with “Cicero uses this but Plautus doesn’t” and “sometimes” it’s this, but it’s usually something else … and on and on and on.


It's very easy to become disheartened, to see these monolithic blocks of information and to be tempted to take up golf instead. There is a difference – a big difference – between people writing (sometimes rather pretentiously) about what they personally know, as opposed to explaining something to a learner.

This was how I approached it all.

[1] Some aspects of a language are more “important” than others; a car can run without an air-con, but it won’t run without an engine! If you don’t know the case endings of, for example, nouns and adjectives and you cannot recognise verb tenses then, even with some simple “schoolbook” sentences, it will be a struggle to know who’s doing what and when!

[2] The words covered in this topic, while not “unimportant”, require less attention. It really depends on how deeply you want to explore. Given that members of the group are at different levels of Latin, and some want to explore a topic more thoroughly than others, the posts here are organised in the following way.

[i] Take a look at image #5: each of the words have “markers” i.e. seven indeclinable suffixes, one is a prefix (ali-) and a few repeat (e.g. quōquō, quicquid):

ali-; -dam; -piam; -vīs; -que; -cumque; -libet; -quam; quicquid; quōquō

These convey certain meanings. At the most basic level, being able to recognise those markers is enough. By way of example, all the words that begin with ali- create an indefinite idea of ‘some’:

quis: who > aliquis: somebody

quid: what > aliquid: something

All of them prefixed with ali- convey that idea and so it isn’t really a question of learning endless new words, but being familiar with the meaning of that particular prefix. English translations do not always convey the, at times, subtle differences between them, but – broadly – you can hold on to one specific meaning for each one.

[ii] Tables are given for reference; a table will give you all forms, but some of those forms are very rare. Reading the language regularly is crucial because you will gradually “pick up” the more frequent ones. What you will notice is that they all follow a pattern i.e. they have all been constructed in the same way.

[iii] Examples are given from the authors to show them in context.

[iv] Exercises allow you, if you want, to be more precise, to identify case endings and to use the table.

[v] Some of these words can function both as pronouns e.g. “Somebody told me that” and adjectives e.g. “Some soldier told me that”; I am not going to spend too much time on the differences (I never did) since they are very slight and always comprehensible in context. In these posts I am going to use a very general heading of “indefinites” rather than being overly analytical. The examples will make it clear what “job” they are doing in a sentence.

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