29.11.25: Level 3; indefinites [13] quīdam [iii] practice

Exercise: complete the Latin excerpts with the appropriate form of quīdam; the answers are at the end of the post

[i] There was a (certain) man in Caesarea named Cornelius │ vir autem __________ erat in Caesareā nōmine Cornēlius

[ii] In Joppa there was a certain disciple [fem.] named Tabitha│ In Joppē autem fuit __________ discipula, nōmine Tabitha

[iii] they seized Simon, a certain Cyrenian, who was coming in from the country │ adprehendērunt Simōnem __________ Cȳrēnēnsem venientem dē vīllā

[iv] However, we must run aground on a certain island │ in īnsulam autem __________ oportet nōs dēvenīre

[v] a creditor (moneylender) had two debtors [= to a certain creditor were …] │ duo dēbitōrēs erant __________ fēnerātōrī

[vi] Now the slave of a certain centurion, who was valuable to him, was sick and about to die │ centuriōnis autem __________ servus male habēns erat moritūrus quī illī erat pretiōsus

[vii] And it came to pass, that, as he was in a certain place praying … │ et factum est cum esset in locō __________ ōrāns

[viii] There was a certain judge in one town who didn't fear God │ Iūdex __________ erat in __________ cīvitāte, quī Deum nōn timēbat

[ix] And certain (ones) of those standing there said to them: │ Et __________ dē illīc stantibus dīcēbant illīs:

[x] and taking unto them some wicked men of the vulgar sort │  adsūmentēsque dē vulgō virōs __________ malōs

[xi] They subvert the faith of some (people) │ subvertunt __________ fidem

[xii] (1) A certain woman loves (2) a certain (man) │ Amat mulier (1) __________ (2) __________

[xiii] Is this the chap who used to be brave [ = was brave at one time]? │  hicinest, quī fuit quondam fortis?

cuidam; cuiusdam; quādam; quaedam; quaedam; quandam; quendam; quendam; quīdam; quīdam; quīdam; quōdam; quondam; quōrundam; quōsdam

[i] vir autem quīdam erat in Caesareā nōmine Cornēlius

[ii] In Joppē autem fuit quaedam discipula, nōmine Tabitha

[iii] adprehendērunt Simōnem quendam Cȳrēnēnsem venientem dē vīllā

[iv] in īnsulam autem quandam oportet nōs dēvenīre

[v] duo dēbitōrēs erant cuidam fēnerātōrī

[vi] centuriōnis autem cuiusdam servus male habēns erat moritūrus quī illī erat pretiōsus

[vii] et factum est cum esset in locō quōdam ōrāns

[viii] Iūdex quīdam erat in quādam cīvitāte, quī Deum nōn timēbat

[ix] Et quīdam dē illīc stantibus dīcēbant illīs:

[x] adsūmentēsque dē vulgō virōs quōsdam malōs

[xi] subvertunt quōrundam fidem

[xii] Amat mulier (1) quaedam (2) quendam

[xiii] hicinest, quī fuit quondam fortis?

29.11.25: Level 3; indefinites [12] quīdam [ii] examples

The first four examples of quīdam are from the Mediaeval text Gesta Rōmānōrum, more of which we’ll look at later in the group. In that text, it is used frequently to introduce stories, and employed to keep names and places vague.

Examples: singular

Imperātrīx quaedam erat, in cuius imperiō erat quīdam mīles │ There was a certain empress in whose empire was a certain soldier

Perrēxit ad quendam philosophum │ He went to a certain philosopher [some philosopher i.e. it doesn’t matter which philosopher]

tibi habeō sēcrētum pandere quoddam │ I have a certain secret to reveal to you

Accidit quōdam diē, ut, cum fīlius piscātōris cum pilā quādam lūderet … │ It happened on a certain day, when the fisherman’s son was playing with a certain ball …

modo quandam vidi virginem hic viciniae miseram suam matrem lamentari mortuam (Terence)

Ac mihi repetenda est ¦ veteris cuiusdam memoriae ¦ … recordātiō (Cicero) │ And now I must bring back to mind the recollection ¦ of a certain old story (one translation gives this simply as “an old story”)

dedī mercātōrī cuidam, quī ad illum dēferat (Plautus) │ I gave (them) to a certain merchant who was to carry them to him

Examples: plural; the first two examples from [i] Comenius, and [ii] the Codex Buranus show that the translation can simply be expressed as a vague some (pupils / people)

[i] 18.11.24: Comenius; in a 17th century school [1]; text and translation

https://adckl.blogspot.com/2024/09/181124-comenius-in-17th-century-school.html

the Master │Praeceptor

sitteth in a Chair │ sedet in Cathedrā

the Scholars │ Discipulī

in Forms (on benches) │ In subsellīs

he teacheth, they learn│ Ille docet, hī discunt

some things (certain things) │ Quaedam

are writ(ten) before them │ Praescrībuntur illīs

with Chalk on a Table │ Crētā in tabellā

Some (certain ones) sit │ Quīdam sedent

at a Table, and write, │ ad Mēnsam, & scrībunt,

he mendeth their Faults, │ ipse corrigit Mendās,

Some stand and rehearse things │ Quīdam stant, & recitant

committed to memory, │ memoriae mandāta,

Some talk together, │ Quīdam cōnfābulantur,

and behave themselves wantonly │ ac gerunt sē petulantēs

and carelessly; │ & negligentēs

[ii] In tabernā quandō sumus (Codex Buranus: 13^th century); the song is certainly not going to name the drunks, the ‘indiscrete’ chaps, and the guys who lose the shirt off their backs in dice playing!

Quīdam lūdunt, quīdam bibunt, │ Some (certain ones) play, some drink

quīdam indiscrētē vīvunt. │ Some behave loosely

Sed in lūdō quī morantur, │ But those who / the ones who linger in the game [ = keep on gambling]

ex hīs quīdam dēnūdantur │ Some of them are stripped bare

quīdam ibi vestiuntur, │ Some are dressed (‘adorned’) [ = win their clothes] there

quīdam saccīs induuntur. │  Some are dressed in sacks

Ibi nūllus timet mortem │ There no-one fears death

sed prō Bacchō mittunt sortem │ but they throw the dice in the name of Bacchus

Plural examples (all from the Vulgate apart from [vi])

[i] trahēbant Jāsonem et quōsdam frātrēs ad prīncipēs cīvitātis │they dragged Jason and some (of the) brethren before the city council

[ii] ibi vīdimus mōnstra quaedam fīliōrum Enach │ There we saw certain monsters of the sons of Enac

[iii] Singular and plural in the same sentence; note how the King James version reflects the translation of quīdam:

Quaestiōnēs vērō quāsdam dē suā superstitiōne habēbant adversus eum, et dē quōdam Jēsū dēfūnctō, quem affirmābat Paulus vīvere. │ But they had certain questions against him concerning their own superstition and of one Jesus [i.e. a certain Jesus, somebody who they know about, but their knowledge is vague], who was dead and whom Paul affirmed to be alive.

[iv] quōrundam hominum peccāta manifēsta sunt │ Some people's sins are evident

[v] … ā quibusdam quia Iōhannēs surrēxit ā mortuīs ā quibusdam vērō quia Heliās appāruit │ … by (according to) some that John was risen from the dead: but by some (others), that Elias had appeared

[vi] Celsus:

Sūdor etiam duōbus modīs ēlicitur, aut siccō calōre aut balneō. Siccus calor est et harēnae calidae … et quārundam nātūrālium sūdātiōnum, ubi terrā profūsus calidus vapor aedificiō inclūditur. │ Sweating also is elicited in two ways, either by dry heat, or by the bath. The dry is the heat of hot sand… and of some natural sweating places, where hot vapour exhaling from the ground is confined within a building.

29.11.25: Level 3; indefinites [11] quīdam [i]

The -dam suffix, which is indeclinable, indicates “a certain”

As a reminder …

[i] Like the other indefinites, it can stand alone as a pronoun:

quīdam [m], quaedam [f], quiddam [n]: a certain (person); a certain (thing); there are certain people who think … i.e. it is not specific as to who or what it’s referring to

[ii] It can also function as an adjective with a slight difference in the neuter:

quīdam [m], quaedam [f], quoddam [n]: a certain king once said; in a certain kingdom there lived a certain soldier:

I have given the declension of both [i] and [ii] in the same image; this is for reference only and, apart from the neuter singular nominative and accusative there is no difference between them. Note, however, the use of /n/ in the accusatives and the genitive plurals; as long as you can recognise that “dam” ending, then you’ll be fine!

What’s the difference between [1] quīdam and [2] aliquis (discussed in the previous posts)?

[1] Et dīcit Jēsus: Tetigit mē aliquis (Vulgate) │ And Jesus says: somebody touched me

English can make a similar distinction although it isn’t consistent in translation: somebody touched Jesus, but Jesus has no idea who it was

[2] habitant hīc quaedam mulierēs pauperculae (Terence) │ certain poor women live here

The speaker knows / is aware of a certain group of women but provides no further details.

At times, quīdam has little more ‘force’ than the English indefinite article a/an as in the following two examples:

“There lived a king, as I’ve been told, in the wonder-working days of old” (W.S. Gilbert)

There was a soldier, a Scottish soldier, / Who wandered far away / And soldiered far away (Stewart)

If those lyrics were in Latin, quīdam would convey the idea: quīdam rēx │ a (certain) king; quīdam mīles │ a (certain) soldier i.e. they are not referring to ‘some king / soldier or other’, but to specific ones in the speaker’s minds but with no names.

[1] aliquī philosophī ita putant │ some philosophers think so [but I have no idea who they are]

[2] quīdam philosophī ita putant │ certain philosophers think so [and I have certain ones in mind but no further information about them is being given]

Look out for: quondam; from quom (older spelling of cum: when) > quon + dam: at one time; formerly; once (in the past); at times; some day (in the future)

Examples and practice in the next posts

LINKS

26.07.24: Level 2; Dē crocodīlō [1]

https://adckl.blogspot.com/2024/06/260724-level-2-de-crocodilo-1.html

30.11.24: Comenius; in a 17th century school [5]; quīdam

https://adckl.blogspot.com/2024/09/301124-comenius-in-17th-century-school_29.html

29.11.25: Level 3; the best fortifications

A very short anecdote to introduce the word in bold:

Quīdam ōlim Spartānō dīxit: "Cūr moenia nōn habet Sparta?" Contrā Spartānus inquit:
"Nē mentītus sīs, optime; moenia praestantissima, incolārum scīlicet virtūtem, urbs nostra habet."

scīlicet: (various meanings) of course; naturally; namely

[1] quīdam: a certain; see the next three Level 3 posts

[2] nē … sis: present subjunctive of esse and used here in a negative command i.e. ‘do not be …’ [ = may you not be]

[3] mentītus, -a, -um: deceived < mentior, -īrī, -ītus sum [4/deponent]: lie

[4] optime: vocative case; (here) my very good (friend)

[5] praestō, -āre, -stāvī / -stitī, praestātus / praestitus [1]: be outstanding; excel > praestāns, praestantis: outstanding

____________________

Some one [= a certain (person)] once said to a Spartan, ‘Why does Sparta not have walls?’ In reply, the Spartan said, ‘Do not be deceived, my good friend; our city has outstanding walls, namely the courage of its inhabitants.’

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta

Antique map of classical city of Sparta (based on ancient sources and not archaeology)

The theatre of ancient Sparta with Mt. Taygetus in the background

By Κούμαρης Νικόλαος, Attribution, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=7035971

Medieval depiction of Sparta from the Nuremberg Chronicle (1493); note the title LACEDEMONIA