05.12.25: Level 3; a retort; genitive of indefinite value

Venit ōlim quīdam ad Aristippum philosophum, eīque dīxit: "Vīsne fīlium meum artēs tuās docēre?" Respondit Aristippus, "Hoc equidem faciam acceptīs duōbus talentīs." Pater autem pretiō exterritus, dīxit, "At servum minōris emere possum." Contrā Aristippus, "Fac hoc: ita duōs servōs habēbis."

contrā: (here) in reply; note also the omission of any verb meaning “said” e.g. inquit

Expressing price / value:

[1] a specific cost or a noun that expresses a monetary equivalent is in the ablative case:

Agrum vēndidit sēstertium sex mīlibus. │ He sold the land for 6000 sesterces.

sānē [i] magnō pretiō, [ii] nummīs aureīs quadringentīs (Livy) │ of course [i] at a great price, [ii]  for four hundred gold coins

Antōnius rēgna addīxit pecūniā. │ Antony sold thrones for money.

Logōs rīdiculōs: quis cēnā poscit? │ Jokes: who wants them for the price of a dinner?

17.06.25: Level 3; summary of of the uses of the ablative case [16]: the ablative of price

https://adckl.blogspot.com/2025/03/170625-level-3-summary-of-of-uses-of_13.html

[2] From the text: At servum minōris [genitive] emere possum │ But I can buy a slave for less

[i] The term genitive of indefinite value can refer to (1) a non-specific monetary amount, or (2) the extent to which something is “valued” i.e. regarded

Compare:

(1) Cicero, referring to the monetary value of a property:

Vērum tamen ego illud, quamquam est bellum, minōris [genitive] aestimō, … │ But, though it is (a) pretty (property), I rate it at a lower value …

(2) Cicero, referring to the value of someone’s approval:

Per enim magnī [genitive] aestimō tibi firmitūdinem animī nostrī* et factum nostrum probārī │ For I attach very great weight to your approval of *my firmness of mind and my action. (*Cicero often uses “we” when referring to himself)

Two further examples where the reference can be to (1) an indefinite monetary value, or (2) the extent to which something is of importance or relevance:

(1) Quantī hoc ēmit? │ How much did he buy this for?

(2) Sed, tū id quantī aestimēs, tuum iūdicium est (Cicero) │ But how much you value that is your judgement. [i.e. But it is for you to decide what weight you should give to the matter.]

Further examples:

Magnī aestimō (Cicero) │ I consider (it) of great value

Permagnī nostrā* interest (Cicero)│ It is of the highest importance to *me

Illud parvī refert │ That matters little

Parvī refert mē │ It is of little use / value to me

Est mihi tantī │ It is worth it to me [it is of such value to me]

Verrēsne tibi tantī fuit? (Cicero) │ Was Verres really worth that much to you? [i.e. Did you value / regard him so highly?]

Plūris ea dūxit quam omnem pecūniam (Cicero) │ He regarded them of more worth than any money

[ii] Both the genitive and the ablative are being used in the following extract from Plautus:

Quantī [genitive] eam ēmit? vīlī [genitive] . . . quot minīs? [ablative i.e. reference to a specific price] Quadrāgintā minīs [ablative]. │ How much did he buy her for? Cheap. For how many minae? For forty minae.

[iii] Certain nouns can convey indefinite value:

(1) Catullus 5

as, assis [3/m]: a Roman coin that is of very low value e.g. Engl. penny, farthing etc.

However, Catullus is not referring literally to a cost, but to rumours that should be considered worthless.

Vīvāmus, mea Lesbia, atque amēmus, │ Let us live, my Lesbia, and let us love,

rūmōrēsque senum sevēriōrum │ And the rumours of rather stern old men

omnēs ūnius aestimēmus assis! │ Let us value them all at one penny!

(2) A similar use is with floccus, -ī [2/m]: [i] a lock (e.g. of hair) [ii] a trifle; something unimportant

floccī nōn faciō │ I don’t care; I don’t give a damn; I consider it worthless

nec tamen floccī faciō (Cicero) │ however, I don’t really care / I couldn’t give a straw

In Catullus 5, the poet’s declarations of love did not meet with the reply “Floccī nōn faciō” from his on-off girlfriend, Lesbia, but read more of his poems and you’ll know that was exactly what she thought!

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Once upon a time a certain man came to Aristippus, the philosopher, and said to him: ‘Are you willing to teach my son your sciences?’ Aristippus replied, ‘I will do so on receiving two talents.’ But the father, terrified at the price, said, ‘Why, I can buy a slave for less.’ Aristippus (said) in reply, ‘Do so; thus you will have two slaves.